tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8179545922823777870.post7516405762741693073..comments2023-07-04T06:47:26.125-04:00Comments on Everything In The Medicine Cabinet Has Expired: MerelySpencer Troxellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03750605353914336538noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8179545922823777870.post-65843139460391501242009-02-20T19:28:00.000-05:002009-02-20T19:28:00.000-05:00Yeah, right back at ya Spence. The distinction bet...Yeah, right back at ya Spence. The distinction between free will, self-actualization, and freedom is certainly not a topic of thought I began the week with. As always, good stuff.Lodo Grdzakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16417430593017226023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8179545922823777870.post-21887096428693526832009-02-20T12:31:00.000-05:002009-02-20T12:31:00.000-05:00While there are perameters placed on all of our fr...While there are perameters placed on all of our freedom by environment and genetics, this is not a reflection on the will.<BR/><BR/>There is a creeping determinism that takes hold as we age. It's fueled by our experiences, genetics, and previous acts of will. This is not a determinism that says, 'you will act this way', it's a soft determinism that says 'you will PROBABLY act this way based on existing data.' The will is a separate entity from freedom, which does indeed vary. A person who doesn't have access to the writings of Sartre may come to similar conclusions as Sartre from some remote location in Africa. A person with all the resources in the world may not even know who Sartre is, and may not even be capable of understanding it. There are perameters on these kind of freedoms.<BR/><BR/>I also agree that most humans seem to be hardwired for the ability to perform certain activities (notice how many caveats I stuck in there?)<BR/><BR/>To me, free will simply means the ability to define our world, ourselves, and to seek meaning. The meaning we find may not be palatable to us, but it will be a meaning that we ourselves defined, according to the authority of our own senses, within the parameters of our own freedoms. <BR/><BR/>There are alot of blind spots out there for sure. We are all limited in our capacities in one way or the other: That's why the cash value of our constructed worldviews are important to consider as we proceed to define ourselves and the world around us.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for this conversation. I think it's important to talk about this kind of stuff.Spencer Troxellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03750605353914336538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8179545922823777870.post-58252034359420010762009-02-19T18:17:00.000-05:002009-02-19T18:17:00.000-05:00Well, Im going to have disagree w/ you on that one...Well, Im going to have disagree w/ you on that one. Particularly when you say a super-poor kid is just as free to see the world in any way he chooses as a rich intellectual. Sure he can choose from one set of superstitions to another, but is that really what you mean by free will? This is exactly why poverty is such a crime and lack of an education is so detrimental--because you do lose out on the development (key word) of your humanity. Its not that poor people are less human, but they have fewer behavioral options, less contact with the larger world to formulate opinions, and less understanding of what motivates the limited behaviors available to them. I would also argue against the notion of being born with free will. For example, is it really possible for a healthy 14 year old boy not to want to get his dick off at least one time? I mean this--Im not just being a jerk (pardon the pun). Our body's are wired for certain things and (like sex or having an orgasm) you have to do them at least once. Its the whole reason our bodies evolved! Sure, once you've had the experience one time you can so "No, no more" (well, I can't, but some can!). But if you're body's healthy, you've gotta do it at least once. You really have no choice and I truly believe that.Lodo Grdzakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16417430593017226023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8179545922823777870.post-19907000505996290172009-02-19T08:22:00.000-05:002009-02-19T08:22:00.000-05:00Those are really good thoughts, and I agree with t...Those are really good thoughts, and I agree with them to a point: It's true that if we're not insightful people, we'll never fully appreciate the degree of freedom we have. I also agree that it's probably harder to self actualize when you're operating lower on Maslow's scale, ie, your African child example.<BR/><BR/>But poverty and destitution doesn't limit free will, although it may limit certain options. The limitations of options doesn't make free-will laughable. Free will is about the possibility of action within a given context. A poor african child is just as free to see the world in any way they choose as the rich intellectual in an ivory tower. The idea of the strenuous life probably has even more meaning to them. They are just as free to be heroes or cowards, or whatever they choose to be in a moral, spiritual, or intellectual sense, which is in my opinion, the most important kind of freedom. Much more important than the ability to hop on a private jet and fly to Paris, or whatever. <BR/><BR/>To say that an impoverished person lacks free will because of their economic status strips them of their humanity. That's not something I'm willing to do.Spencer Troxellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03750605353914336538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8179545922823777870.post-51017586783993831532009-02-18T23:23:00.000-05:002009-02-18T23:23:00.000-05:00Like the great animal behaviorist--Konrad Lorenz, ...Like the great animal behaviorist--Konrad Lorenz, I'd argue that free will is something that must be obtained. If you don't understand basic psychological principles that drive and motivate you, then the idea of free-will is laughable. To think that some starving kid in Africa thats never received an education and has to grub all day for food has free will is a bit of ivory tower thinking (not that you're arguing that this is the case--Im just saying). I'd say that only after your basic needs have been met, and after you've taken the time to contemplate your existence, can you maybe "achieve" free will. But I'd argue that it's an accomplishment and not something we're born with. Actually just the opposite.Lodo Grdzakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16417430593017226023noreply@blogger.com